Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to Muddy Paws Insurance podcast. I'm your host, Dawn Cross and today we'll be chatting about Holistic Vet, a practice that focuses on covering every angle of pet health with Dr. Nick Thompson, founder and veterinary expert.
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Well, welcome to the Muddy Paws podcast. Thank you for coming on today. If I could get to start off with introduce yourself and what your role is.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: My name is Nick Thompson. I am a vet. I qualified from Edinburgh University in 1992 with a degree in veterinary medicine and surgery and also a degree in pathological sciences, which allowed me to look into immunology, parasitology, molecular biology and all sorts of very interesting microbiological pathological processes. And I've been fascinated ever since.
What I currently do now is my, my business is holisticvet.co.uk and as the name suggests, I am trying to look at health and medicine through a holistic lens in order to try and not just be somebody who's fighting symptoms, but somebody who is promoting the body's own ability to regulate and restore health in, in the dogs that I see.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: That sounds amazing. So you're really looking at everything for a fine tooth comb, really for a nice little microscope.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that, I mean we could, we could discuss it in, in some length, but really it's.
Modern medicine is very much orientated towards pharmaceutical medicine and I think that drugs are very useful. But when you see that small but effective toolbox as your entire toolbox, I think that's where the problem lies. And for me, sometimes it's not a question of adding something to the picture, it's a question of removing elements of lifestyle that might be impeding the ability of the dog to make themselves better. And nutrition is a really prime example.
Very many dogs come to me who are eating ultra processed food and in a significant number of cases, all that we need to do for dogs with gut problems, IBD problems or with skin problems, itching, ATP or coltitis, recurrent otitis problems, all you need to do is get the food right and the body is perfectly able to make itself better.
So I'm looking at trying to optimize processes that want to self regulate and to try and remove those parts of the lifestyle that might be impeding the body.
Self replicating, not self replicating, but, but, but, but moving to a more healthy position I think is a, is, is an accurate description of what I do if you want it. In a nutshell.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: No, I think that's very comprehensive. I think it's, it's very interesting as well because you know, thinking of the bigger picture especially you know, obviously we can have antibiotics, we can have, you know, steroids, medications that can really help get the system going. But yeah, like you said, there's so many factors like environmental for example, is like, you know, maybe a dog is feeling unwell, but actually maybe half it could just be like, you know what, their bedding could be harboring some mould that is obviously affecting their breathing issues. And I think it's really key to always look at a bigger picture rather than just going well here's some medication, but like is that going to help solve everything or they going to run their course with medication? Then that's it. But they still continue to have these issues. And I think holistic approaches are quite an interesting thing.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Sure. I mean it's given the term nowadays as holism, but I think it's really, it's just returning to a realization that drugs are useful but are not the whole picture.
It's interesting you mentioned, you mentioned antibiotics and steroids. Antibiotics do not promote health, they just kill bacteria. Yeah, so.
And the body does the rest. Okay, so that's, that's really interesting. And with the whole, over the last 20 years we've discovered that actually the whole idea of, of bacteria and microbiome is, is much more complex than we first thought. And just going in and scattergun, killing loads of bacteria all in one go can help. But there are downsides to using those. And the other drug that you mentioned is steroids, which are incredibly useful, but they do, they're basically suppressive, suppressing the body, doing what it wants to do, whether that's an anti inflammatory effect or, or whether that's actually having a kind of an immunosuppressive effect.
So it's complex and drugs are useful, but there's an awful lot more that one can do to add or subtract from the picture. And that's what makes my job very interesting, is that I'm not just limited to, to 1, 1 approach, 1, 1 psychological approach to disease. So that, yeah, makes it, makes it very. Every case is interesting, even if I just see itchy dogs all day. They all have different reasons for being there. If you're just dealing with drugs, it's right here's your, is your atopica, your apoquel, your steroid, your whatever. Okay. It's just, here's the drugs that will get rid of the itch, but if we're looking at it from a holistic point of view. It's like, do we need to look at the diet? Do we need to look at modifying the immune system? Do we need to look at modifying the microbiome? And so it just opens up a much broader approach to gently trying to move the body into a healthy, a healthy equilibrium.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Definitely. You know, I'd love to, obviously you don't have to say any names, but I'd love to know maybe a recent example of what you've seen and how you were able to help them, you know, in a holistic approach. Because I'm sure anyone who's listening to the podcast would love to know kind of how it works hand in hand with the, you know, very medical, you know, medication side as well as looking at the bigger picture.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Sure. Okay, well, this, there's a couple of cases that come to mind.
These are just typical cases. So I often see dogs who will, who have got an IBD problem.
The stool quality is poor, therefore they get anal gland problems, they get gut problems. They may have behavioral problems because, because they've got, you know, permanently, they've got discomfort from, from the abdomen, you know.
And so with these cases, they will often have been on four or five different foods. They may have been on antibiotics to try and rejig the gut, the gut microbiome, they may have been on steroids to reduce the inflammation within the gut.
But what I find is very useful is to move them onto a raw food, ideally and possibly a fresh, which is a lightly cooked diet.
And very many times that will cause that, that, that simple change moving from an ultra processed paradigm to a more biologically appropriate paradigm that will, that will do the trick.
And, and so those are, those are very, very typical as regards.
I often see, for example, Labradors who have got, they go and see the vet every three months because they get, they're getting itchy or infected ears or infected ear, and they get a very effective drop which improves it for a month or two.
But it just, it just creeps up. Again, this is a very common scenario. Okay, I'm just, I'm grouping together 30 recent cases.
And in, in many cases it's just a question of doing something similar, saying, okay, do we have a food sensitivity problem here? So we take them from an ultra processed food.
We take them from going to McDonald's Kentucky Fried, name your, the ultra processed food outlet of your choice.
And we say, well, why don't we just avoid feeding this dog these dogs on foods that we are told by our doctors to avoid.
Why don't we just stop that for a while and see if we can improve gut, therefore improve biome, therefore improve immune system, therefore reduce the flare, the inflammation in the skin and most notably in the ear.
Because once the ear becomes inflamed, any, any pathogenic bugs that are in the ear can then just absolutely take off. And this is what's happening in those situations is that the, the food is upsetting the, the microbiome and the gut, which is upsetting the immune system, which is causing the, a generalized itch in the dog and most specifically an itch or inflammatory change in the ear which then gives you an infection on top of the inflammation which you can very easily, you can treat the tip of the iceberg, but in order to get long, kind of long standing improvement, you can't just treat the tip of the iceberg. You've got to tip, you've got to treat the rest of the iceberg so that the iceberg just disappears.
That's what we're looking for. I always say to my clients, the best vet is the vet that you don't need to call.
And that's who we like to be and insurance companies like us. Because rather than just coming back and coming back and coming back, these cases will.
And having effective treatment every time, why not try and deal with treatment such that you try and cut the disease process off at the root, such that it doesn't flourish on a regular basis.
That's kind of a broad picture of what we do.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: It's definitely. I think you, you just nailed my next question perfectly. Because I was asking, you know, why do pet parents need to con, you know, consider a holistic approach. But I think that's a very key point as well. You don't have to keep going back to the vets, keep trying to sort it out. And also means the dog doesn't suffer further as well. If you can kind of treat it cause very quickly then they're happy bunny as it were. And then you know, you're not going to have, you know, alarming behaviors pop up as well because you know, if they're so uncomfortable for the very itchy, they've got some pain and inflammation, they're more likely to start showing behaviors that could be seen as like bad because then obviously they're trying to tell you something and you can just avoid that whole process just by going straight to the source and you know, box your uncle.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah, this is it. I mean, dogs generally don't like going to the vets. There are some who do, but I'm sure they'd rather be out and they'd be out in the woods chasing rabbits and what have you. So.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: And vets would, would rather be treating cases that are, are difficult, are, are, are somehow not the norm. They would rather be treating those than treating, you know, Flossy the Labrador for her ear four times a year. Okay.
And, and dogs don't like having medication any more than, than people like having. Even if it's an antibiotic, it's in the food and they don't even notice it's in the food. They don't like it internally, they don't like it because we're upsetting the, the equilibrium of the body.
So the, ideally dogs need great food, great exercise, great rest, lots of love and that's about it.
And, and apart from just, you know, maintenance, that's a very big question of what do dogs actually need for maintenance, you know, vaccines and what have you. We can talk about those if you like, but probably haven't got time.
But the, the less medical intervention that a dog can have over its lifetime, it's cheaper, it's more, more welfare because the dog is not in pain, in distress, owner is happier because they're not having to go up and down to the vets. There's, well, owner welfare because they're not worried about, oh my goodness, the dog is ill. And so there's a lot of benefits to be gained from this holistic approach as opposed to saying, oh, it's about ear, here's some ear drops, see you in three months. You know, they won't say see you in three months, they'll say see how you go and it will improve and then it will get worse again.
So we're just trying to take a step back and look at modern medicine and say, what can we do to help the dog? As opposed to just trying to hinder the disease. That's possibly a way of encapsulating it.
So, you know, nowadays it's a little bit better. But people used to say, oh, holistic medicine. Oh, that's all very woo woo. But I think people get the idea that drugs, drugs are useful, but there are many other ways that we can help with the welfare of, of dogs.
And that's all we, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to put ourselves out of business. Yeah, I think the line of the best vet is the vet you don't need to call. I say that probably three times a day.
And it's absolutely true because dogs are always going to get sick. You Know with all sorts of weird and wonderful things.
And if those dogs who don't actually need medicine, those dogs who just need a tweak in lifestyle, a tweak in diet, a tweak in the nutrients, the supplements that they're taking, if that's all they need to be healthy on their own, then for me that really is a fantastic way to go. My dad was a doctor, my mother was a nurse, so I'm not against the medical profession in any way. But they by their own admission would always say that if they can teach people how to look after their dogs quickly and simply, then that is, that is possibly the highest ideal of medicine. You know.
So, yeah, it's, it's an interesting time we find ourselves in nowadays that it's not just go to the doctor, get a pill, go home or go to the vet, get a pill, get some drops, go home. We're actually that it's blossoming into a much more people are more hands on, I feel these days and are thinking, what can I do to actually make my dog well?
So there you go. I could talk about this stuff a lot. I'm trying to keep it as concise as possible so that people don't get bored with hearing about the philosophy of medicine.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: No, it's really, it's really nice though to hear because obviously you're, you're speaking from such a wealth of experience. So to be able to, you know, have you on here today is really key because I think, you know, everyone should be able to learn about the different ways and options they can do to look after their pets. And you know, there's some people who, you know, are quite seasoned, there's some people quite new and obviously they're not quite sure how to go about things. And I think everyone should be able to look at the pet's whole life rather than just going, okay, well they need antibiotics as an infection, but also like, you know, what else could you be doing? Or making sure that maybe you can wipe their paws sometimes just to make sure that whilst things are healing that things don't go back in and stuff like that. You know, it's good to look at the whole, whole picture.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I think learning within a framework that suits you. You know, if you, if you're a doctor, you're gonna be able to understand an awful lot more about what, what goes on in your dog.
If you're a plumber, then you may, you maybe you're going to be able to understand maybe the heart and circulation and, and what have you and, you know, whatever you, whatever you do. But everybody has a feel for health. Everybody, everybody can recognize when things are going wrong and either learn about some simple remedies at home or take advice from friends.
But obviously, if in doubt, definitely worth going to the vets to get checked. Or you could say to people, well, dog's not right.
Go to the vet, get them checked and then discuss what options might be available. I think that's good. The welfare of the dog is always paramount before any other consideration.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Definitely. Is there any kind of lasting bits of advice you'd like to share for, like a key takeaway for someone who's listening today?
[00:20:52] Speaker A: Kind of key pieces of advice. So I think the, the important things for me.
Oh, the teams meeting is just jumping on again. No, let's ignore that. So, pieces of advice.
The first thing is, are you comfortable eating yourself, eating ultra processed food once or twice a day every single day?
If you think that that's not the case, I would really strongly, if you're able, think about moving to a much more natural way of feeding.
Raw feeding is for me is optimal for most dogs and it's a very easy thing to look into.
If you just look on Google, look at the top 10 quality raw producers, they'll be delighted to have a chat with you. Have a chat with two or three of those and just kind of get a feel for what's happening.
I would suggest that's it, you know, because food really is the basis of health. That sounds like a silly, like such an obvious thing to say, but actually if, if you're eating ultra processed food every single day, I think that everybody knows somewhere in their heart that, that that's not, it cannot be ideal. And I'm just going to put a big fat red medical stamp on that and say that is my experience over 40 years in veterinary medicine that yeah, eating good food really is the basis.
So food is easy, it's fun. You know, feeding real food is easy fun, it's economic.
And my, my experience says it can give a greater health span. Okay. I'm not saying I'm going to make dogs live forever and be doddering around and uncomfortable for a very long time. We actually do that to people.
And I'm not sure whether that's an ideal thing, but if we can expand the length of time that dogs are vibrant and full of energy and vitality, I think that has to be a good thing. And that is my experience with RAW and some of those dogs on fresh food as well. So that would be the absolute Fundamental.
If you're looking at food, also look at treats. For me, treats should be not too many and should be real food. Just dried bits of meat, something like that without any colorants or preservatives.
So if you can find just pure treats which have one ingredient, meat dried heart, dried lung dried, something like that, that's absolutely ideal. If it's got more than two or three ingredients, I would be a little bit suspicious.
As regards chews, exactly the same one ingredient, just beef sinew, dried lamb intestine dried called lamb spaghetti, venison hide dried. These things are good. Bones are really very valuable but it's a question of just weaning dogs onto that. I've done a video on how to wean a raw or fresh fed dog onto bones on my website holisticvet.co.uk people can see there's lots of information there. I've also got a YouTube channel where there's lots of free information you'll be pleased to hear.
Check that out.
And just this year I've been writing a substack so my, my thoughts on, on medicine, health.
Medicines, all sorts of daily ponderings on substat.
So it would be to get the basics right would be my take home message.
There are holistic vets in, in, in in the UK if you, if you look up those or raw feeding vets.
I founded in 2014 the raw feeding Veterinary Society and that's still going great guns and you can find that r FVS.info raw feeding veterinary society RFVS.info so there's, there's information there on, on species appropriate nutrition which is, you know, delicious, healthy and dogs do, do really, really well on it.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: God, that sounds amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. It's been really amazing hearing all these kind of things and I think I've learned things as well.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: Great.
Well that's great. Thank you Dawn. I really, really appreciate it. Keep up the good work. All the very best to you and to everybody watching and you know, good luck with your dogs, stay healthy and hopefully you will have the best vet in the world who's somebody you don't need to call very often.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: Thank you to my guest today, Nick, for chatting about the importance of looking at every angle with your pet's health to treat issues that they can come up with. If you would like to know more about what Dr. Nick gets up to in his practice, please click the link in the description.
I have been your host, Dawn Cross and make sure to click follow for more episodes.
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