Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Muddy Port Insurance podcast. I'm your host, Dawn Cross, and today I'll be chatting about animal rights with Fleur Disney, the communications manager at Animal Aid.
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[00:00:20] Speaker B: Okay, so if we could start off the interview, please introduce yourself and where you come from, what your company is all about.
[00:00:28] Speaker C: Absolutely. Hello, my name's Fleur Disney. I'm the communications manager for AnimalAid. We are an animal protection charity. We've been going nearly 50 years actually.
So, yes, we're one of the oldest ones in the country and we work across all areas that affect animals to try to make the world a kinder place for them.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Sounds brilliant. So I guess you probably get this question all the time, but what is Animal Aid all about? What is it that you guys do to make a difference?
[00:00:59] Speaker C: We do an awful lot of awareness raising because I think many people just have no idea of the kind of legal abuse that happens to animals in this country.
So, for example, we're very well known for our investigative work. We do a lot of undercover investigating that could be in slaughterhouses, it could be in farms, it could be in slaughterhouses where we're seeing former horses who are raced turn up.
So, for example, we did a big expose a few years ago that was on BBC Panorama and shockingly, we found that over a thousand horses a year who were raced in this country ended up being sold for meat.
Yeah, yeah.
So a very broad range.
And yes, unfortunately, it is sometimes very, well, dark and traumatic because unfortunately that side of society exists and obviously a lot of human behaviours are really, really negatively impacting animals.
But we also have very much an awareness raising side to our campaigns which can be really positive.
We have an education department who do fantastic work across the country. They go into schools and give free school talks. So that might be to primary children, it might be secondary children, but it's really just inspiring them to be more curious about animals and to again, learn about how we can live without cruelty.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: I think it's something that we don't talk about enough, or maybe if you remember, there was kind of a big boom about it, you know, five, seven years ago. But it's something that seems to be swept under the rug since is that, you know, a lot of animals, whether they're working animals as well, is like people forget that, you know, they should have rights, we should look after them.
And not everyone thinks about it from, you know, where they buy, you know, meat to, you know, whether actually they go to like race tracks and stuff like that. Really?
[00:03:18] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, it's important to kind of factor in the fact that really millions and millions of pounds have been spent on trying to make these behaviors seem normal or to hide the really negative behaviors. So as an example, oh, I don't know, like marketing terms like free range or grass fed or you know, sustainable meat, that's not really a thing. You can't really have sustainable meat in the way that we raise animals in this country.
But you know, it's, I think a lot of people have a lot of guilt around that. I certainly did myself around eating animals and eating milk and eggs. But it's important to remember that, yeah, millions of pounds have been spent on lobbying and to make us kind of accept this behavior and normalize it.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: No, it's definitely understandable. And it's, it's a bit problematic, isn't it, when, you know, obviously big companies do have a lot of money that, you know, like I said, just kind of like swish it under the rug a little bit with these terms that don't necessarily mean a certain thing unless maybe they're actually certified or have been checked that yes, it's definitely free range. Chickens, like some say that's free range, but maybe they're still in a warehouse for example. And I was like, well that's not exactly free range. But you know, they get, they find all the loopholes, don't they?
[00:04:50] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Now I think for example, just on that, on that free range thing, I think it's something like, and don't quote me on this, but I think it was maybe a kind of battery. Chickens could, you could have say something like 16 chickens per square meter. Yeah, but for free range it was like 30.
So that when it comes to like you say that legal loophole, we always think of, oh great. Well, free range means, you know, in an orchard. Yeah. No cages whatsoever. But yeah, it's, it's the way of the world, isn't it? But fortunately things are changing.
Things are really changing in recent years.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: So obviously, you know, you guys, you have a range of things that you work on and so you do very investigative sections and stuff like that. So what campaigns are you working on currently that you want to raise wellness about today?
[00:05:47] Speaker C: I would love to talk about our most recent campaign which is we're looking to end greyhound racing in the uk.
So actually there's only been nine countries where greyhound racing is still legal. And in fact Wales have just announced a ban.
Scotland are looking at a ban And New Zealand have announced a ban as well. So again, as is so often the case, England is lagging behind.
But I think so many people, we don't realize how cruel the industry is. Again, wherever animals and industry meet, there's going to be terrible, terrible cruelty.
I think we all are familiar with, you know, we've all seen rescued greyhounds, but it's. It's much kind of darker than that and much murkier than that. So, for example, in 2024, so last year, one greyhound died every three days as a result of the racing industry, which, yeah, it's a really shocking statistic, but we just have. There's no kind of general awareness about that.
And I think between say, 2017 and 2023, around 4,000 greyhounds just went missing or died.
And that's because, of course, they aren't fast enough or maybe they ended up with injuries or a home wasn't found for them in time.
And now, very sadly, we've had reports of all sorts of abuse taking place from dogs even being shot or drowned.
And I know this is very. This would be very hard for your listeners to hear because it is horrendous. And I appreciate, you know, even the way I'm speaking about it. I think as an organization, we deal with these kind of things on a more daily basis, but it does still sometimes stab you in the heart. Of course it does.
So I know that your listeners will be really shocked to hear some of these facts.
I mean, for example, sometimes the dogs, they'll be drugged, they'll even be fed cocaine to make them run faster.
Yeah, it's a really, really shocking industry.
However, so we currently have a government petition out and I'll share with you the link later. So we're trying to reach 100,000 signatures by January, end of. And that will mean that the government will debate the issue in Parliament because actually there's only, I think greyhound racing started in about the 30s in this country and there were perhaps 70 racetracks. Now there are 70, 17.
So it's really on the way out.
There's not a lot of public support.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: For it at all, which is understandable. It's like, you know, I wouldn't be able to imagine my own dog or my mum's dog, you know, being put through that just because it's a sport that, you know, people place bets on and go to watch. Like, it's very hard to think, you know, you've got to remember, it's like, you know, these are lovely animals that just want to be Here exist. Have fun.
They probably really love their owners, but then, you know, they do get treated in such a certain way, and it's very hard, very hard to hear, but it's something that, you know, I personally very much agree that it does need to be phased out.
And, you know, like, the dogs deserve a better life. So, you know, they are like, as a breed, you know, really quick, which is great for them, but the fact that they have been exploited like that is unfortunate. And it's, you know, the crazy ways they get them to compete as well. It's like that's.
Where is your heart, you know?
[00:09:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly that.
And I mean, I think it's interesting that we even. It is still referred to as a. A sport. And again, do excuse me, let me make that stop again. I think that's perhaps in some way, you know, kind of part of the marketing, because really, you know, how is it. It's certainly not fair. It's not like a, you know, a sporting game. And imagine if there was any kind of human sport where so many of the participants actually died.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:16] Speaker C: You know, that would. Gladiators went out a long time ago.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Good reason.
[00:10:23] Speaker C: For good reason. Exactly. And as you say, goodness, we're ever so busy today. I think it's because we've launched this campaign. It's actually our week of action for Greyhouse at the moment. So across the country, there's going to be peaceful demonstrations taking place outside the various racetracks that still exist.
Again, just to bring awareness to what's happening.
Because, yeah, this is. This is something that we.
We can actually see phased up, well, ending quite soon, actually. It doesn't even have to be a long process.
So we are very. We're very optimistic about this one. And of course, everybody who knows anyone who knows a greyhound knows what gentle, sweet, sensitive animals they are.
We've actually got some T shirts, some campaign T shirts out, and they. They say on them, I'll race you to the sofa, but that's it. And, you know, I think that sums up these dogs, don't they? They're just happy chilling on the sofa with their friends.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. And I think as well, you know, every. Every dog, every cat, they deserve to just have a comfy, cozy life with families that love them so, so much. I personally can't bear to think about, you know, dogs and stuff that do get treated so horribly and. And pushed for a cause because, you know, they. All they want to do is love us back. You know, they want to be there for us and for Them to be kind of treated in such a negative and, and destructive way is really.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: It'S.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: It'S not worth it, in my opinion. I know obviously some people are going to think a bit differently, but it doesn't seem like it's worth it. You know, we're all about love and peace.
Like, why can't we, you know, include the animals in that as well?
[00:12:15] Speaker C: Well, exactly. And, you know, the thing is, we are, we are animals. At the end of the day, we're human animals.
And I think, I think we're seeing more and more perhaps, you know, in recent years that people are starting to understand the connection, you know, where oppression exists. It's not just, of course, the greyhound, for example, with this issue alone, yes, the greyhounds are oppressed, but equally the betting industry is making, well, a killing, for want of a better phrase.
And they tend to be very vulnerable people who end up, you know, with gambling debts, even people who take their own lives or can't afford to pay their mortgage or their rent. So, you know, there's a very real human cost.
Again, most, most times when there's any kind of animal cost because they're related. When an industry is oppressing one, they're kind of oppressing all.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: So obviously with Christmas coming up, one of the key messages that I do see from a lot of organizations from self, is about the whole adopt, don't shop.
I'd love if you could go more into that because obviously that is. Well, Christmas will be very quickly upon us.
[00:13:25] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. This is something that we see so many issues caused for animals by people who just go and think they can buy a life.
And for me, that's a very kind of emotive topic because it seems, well, it's very irresponsible.
Not to mention you are treating this creature as an object or a toy. Hopefully we are starting to see an increase in people realizing the need to adopt and to rescue animals.
But as we see time and time again, people will, for example, buy a kitten and then they won't have the kitten spayed or neutered and then before long that kittens having kittens. And obviously it's. On an ethical, moral level, it's no good. But most importantly, the reason it's no good is because then you're creating more animals who are at risk, highly at risk from abuse. Now, whether it's a case that, you know, the rescue centers and sanctuaries are full to capacity so they can't take them in, we know that many animals will end up being killed because there's no space for them in these sanctuaries.
But also there's the very real danger of these animals falling into other wrong hands and even being used as bait for illegal dog fighting, which is absolutely horrendous. But unfortunately, it's not a rare thing. You know, there's a big underground network of illegal dog fighters. And so unfortunately, many of these poor animals end up victim of that or just being abandoned, dumped in a box, left to starve. And it really is heartbreaking.
In fact, my own cat turned up to me because our neighbors had done exactly the same. They just got another kitten without thinking through how Daisy, our cat, how she might think about it. And, you know, she was having none of it, so she moved out.
We've sorted it all now with the neighbors. It's all squared. The microchip has been changed over to my name.
But, you know, this is a very. Yeah, a very big problem. And you're right, we do see this more at Christmas time. I mean, hopefully many people now are starting to get the message.
I find it crazy that it still happens, but.
And you're probably aware as well that many, not all breeders, there are better breeders than others. But there's also so many more informal or unlicensed breeders or even just actual puppy farms. You know, we hear so many, so many reports of random puppy farms, and you wouldn't even know. It might be in someone's sheds at the back of their garden or in some field, and the neighbors would have no idea. Yeah, but this is. You know, the mothers are. Well, they're treated in the same way as, say, chickens or cow mothers are treated. They're just repeatedly bred and bred and bred until their bodies are completely exhausted. And then those puppies will probably have some kind of disease or injuries. They might not live very long.
So it's just. It's very sad all around. So, yes, we would absolutely encourage people to consider adopting instead of shopping.
And actually, that's a really interesting point because as a.
So I mentioned Animal Aid, we're an animal rights organization.
And the difference for us just to say is that we feel that if. If we all. If animals had rights and we respected. Well, animals do have rights. If we respected their rights, we wouldn't need to worry about their welfare.
That wouldn't be an issue.
So. So yeah, this. This kind of is at the core of it.
And I. I think that, you know, so for me personally, I kind of avoided rescuing an animal for a long time because I didn't feel perhaps I was financially responsible enough or to, to give it the life that they, to give her the life that she desired or needed, deserved because she is a queen.
And, you know, actually that's a really beautiful way of being an activist. There's so many animals stuck in shelters and okay, maybe you can't give them the perfect life that you'd like to offer them, but it's going to be an awful lot better than being stuck in a shelter.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: No, definitely, I think as well is that obviously some animals do have certain conditions, as it were. Like, some may not work well with children and stuff like that. But I think a lot of them, you know, they might be displaying like, not the most best behaviors, but maybe it's just because, you know, they are stressed and they're in a unfortunate place. You know, their owners may have given them up for whatever reason. So they're like, you know, they're missing those humans and, you know, they don't get given enough grace. I think sometimes that of course they're going to be like this for a hot minute. It's because, you know, how would you feel if you were put in an unforgiving place? There's so many other people around you, you get kind of talked at and feels like, you know, cats next to you, the front and center, of course you're gonna be not, not in your best mood, as it were.
You know, you would be like, stressed and like anxious, like, what are you doing here? Like, where's my, where's my human? Where they've gone.
[00:19:04] Speaker C: Exactly that. These are, as you actually say, perfectly, perfectly put. These are stressed, possibly traumatized, anxious animals and a lot of them as well. Obviously some of them will be much older, but some of them are really young. There's some puppies and kittens there, so they're still babies and yeah, they're just, they're isolated or abandoned and stressed. So yes, they're not, they're not their best selves at that moment.
But it does take, you know, love and attention and patience.
But gosh, it can be so incredibly rewarding.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: 100%. So as we're now drawing close to our podcast episode today, I think the last question on my mind is like, how can people get involved with animoid and speak support you guys?
[00:19:48] Speaker C: Ah, well, that's a lovely question.
Well, I would first of all ask if all of your listeners could go to our website and sign our government petition to end greyhound racing. That would be amazing.
So to do that, we are animalaid.org UK Greyhound Petition and that should Take you straight to the link.
That would be fantastic.
We also, if anybody is a little, shall I call it vegan Curious. I don't know.
It's actually Vegan Month coming up in November now, although that, you know, it might be a very new concept to many of your listeners.
It's a big part of what we do, obviously, because so many animals in this country are abused because of food industries.
And so as part of Vegan Month, we ask people to take a pledge for the month and it's just to try going plant based.
And nowadays I don't know if this is something you've ever kind of dallied with, but it is so much easier than it used to be.
Now there's such a wide range of like plant milks or butters or creams, ice cream cakes, whatever it is, some really brilliant alternatives. So it's, it's so much easier to do. But you can head over to our website and take the pledge for the month, see how you get on. I'd Advise we're on TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, most of the socials. So if you're at all interested, give us a follow to learn more.
And yeah, just generally keep in touch because we're doing some really exciting things. In fact, we also have an upcoming, this is slightly different, but we also have a science conference coming up. We do it every year. It's called the Future of Science and it's specifically designed to show that, you know, science that uses animals, well, it's not, it's not good science, it's poor science. It's very inaccurate, inefficient and actually dangerous for humans because, you know, even though we might have 98.8% same genetics as a chimpanzee, that point, whatever percent means that they're, they're a chimpanzee and we're a human and we are a bit different.
So this Future of Science conference is for young people to bring them on. And if you'd like to learn about more about any, about what we've discussed today or perhaps even book a school talk, you can find all that information on our website. So again, that's annamalaid.org.uk and forward/ Greyhound petition, if you'll sign our petition, that's great.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much for coming on today. It's been really informative and great to speak to you guys about what you get up to.
[00:22:23] Speaker C: Oh, super dawn, thank you so much for having us on. We really appreciate it.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: To my guest today. Fleur for chatting about Animal Aid's amazing campaigns in animal rights work.
If you'd like to know more about their campaign to end greyhound racing, please click the link in the description.
I have been your host, Dawn Cross and make sure to click Follow for more episodes.
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